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so it goes so it goes Kurt Vonnegut jr.

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so one of the things I like about your

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work is I think that you are

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fundamentally tied to the big questions

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and you seem to be returning to those in

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a way that I really get excited about

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because that's what it's about who are

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we why are we here those are the only

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questions those are the only questions

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of Sciences the only questions of life

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and it's not just that culture is being

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engineered we have to then take it to

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the next level and tease out you know

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how it's being engineered and how it's

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not being engineered even though we

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might be told it's being engineered that

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way it's like the third layer deep of

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the conspiracy thoughts stuff if there

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is this potential within us as human

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beings that enables us to discover true

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autonomy a true experience of ourselves

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and our nature was in creation like you

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said at the beginning who are we and why

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are we here to really uncover that

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answer as individuals would make us

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beyond the reach of any kind of control

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or manipulation or exploitation come a

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nasty kind of thing well that's a whole

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can of worms because the Gnostic thing I

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used to be very in line with that but

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I've begun to see the Gnostic thing as

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as another example of the counter that I

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feel so it is very subtle but but yeah

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in certain sense is that the Gnostic

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sense of having direct knowledge of

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reality and uncovering the heaven within

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us and and that yes in that very strict

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and straightforward sense each of us has

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our own connection to the divine and if

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we were to uncover that then we would be

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on beyond the reaches of control you

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know these different groups and

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organizations so let's see how its key

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and critical so you see I love what you

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just said there Jason I want to

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highlight that people because it's it's

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the point where a lot of people throw up

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their arms and just give up when you say

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you know Nasser says you know yeah

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but maybe I feel like that's been

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co-opted some ways to people go oh my

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god this guy's just everything is a

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conspiracy in this money it's like

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that's I think a contribution that

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you're making him that I was trying to

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put my finger on is that of course again

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it's the PlayBook man like that they're

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up we just throw the [\h__\h] at it and see

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what we can do how hard is it to co-op

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the the Gnostic thing and to throw it in

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this movie or promote that movie and all

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of a sudden we have a hook in it we

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don't know where it's gonna go but we

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know we can do something with it or the

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other that's why I love the Gloria

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Steinem example that's not from your

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book it's from another guest that we've

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had

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Josaphat well but but the point is the

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same it's like yeah but why would the

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CIA care about the woman's movement and

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moreover was it a kind of a good thing I

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mean women were being disenfranchised

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and underpaid all the rest of stuff

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that's like they don't [\h__\h] care they

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just want part they want to have a part

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of that action wherever it goes same

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with psychedelics same with this so I

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think what you've put your finger on is

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really important I think you're right

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about Gnosticism and I'll let you now

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because I'm sorry I pulled you off

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return to talking about UFO et because

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what what your insight brings us is that

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at every turn now we have to be paranoid

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because we have to assume that the

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PlayBook is happening at every way we

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want to look at this if we want to look

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at it the scientific you know real

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spacecraft Stan Friedman kind of way

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it's in play there if we want to look at

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in the jacques ballet and fairies it's

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in play there if we want to look at

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David Jacobs and abductions it's sure as

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hell in play there it's in play all over

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the place and then maybe at some point

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we'll return to Whitley Strieber as kind

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of this character that runs the gamut he

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runs the gamut and runs the gauntlet

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through all those which is past me but

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he writes the nature of the dilemma that

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we're in

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that pretty much anything any part of

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culture that you you choose to analyze

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you're gonna find ways in which there's

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been hoaxes put in there and you know

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landmines and snares and traps and all

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the rest of it so in a certain sense it

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would be insane it would be foolish to

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think that we could just analyze the

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whole of culture and figure out what's

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going on you know one piece at a time

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there's no end to it it's the whole of

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existence in a certain sense and it's

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what corresponds with the spiritual path

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of neti neti as in not this not that we

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just keep proceeding through existence

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seeing the illusory nature of the things

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around us until eventually we we turn we

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change the direction of our attention

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and place it fully inward and discover

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that what thou art that I'm just summing

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up the spiritual quest and very short

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time but my general point here is is

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that all of my researches and

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explorations they're not about naming

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the bad guys they're not even about you

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know mapping the conspiracies so that we

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can address them or change anything

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they're about actually developing a

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toolset you know a set of eyes and ears

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and senses by which I will be able to

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discern better a measure in my daily

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life what is real and what's unreal so I

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don't really necessarily care about

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where this ruler because he had such an

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impact on me so it's very personal to me

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like I felt I was very indoctrinated

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with the ideology of the et and this is

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a point I wanted to get to about the way

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in which these things are co-opted it's

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not as simple as top-down or outside in

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its inside out it's the way the

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narratives they can they can have all

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the same elements that are basically

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true let's say the et or the New Age but

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they're arranged in such a way with a

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subtext or a context or a connected

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tissue which is ideological so then the

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narratives although they're playing out

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it's like a movie you know you enjoy the

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plot that somehow you sense wait I'm

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being propagandized here it's not just

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about Dirty Harry killing the bad guy

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Dirty Harry represents the us stay and

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and Scorpio represents you know the

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youth or the hippie move or whatever it

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is and this is all a mess

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from we're being propagandized I'd say

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that you can find this in the et you can

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find us in the New Age you can find it

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even in conspiracy theories

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there's a subtle ideological thrust and

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that because we've already been

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indoctrinated with that ideology then

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the narrative with its ideological

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subject interacts or you know gloms onto

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our already our conditioning and we're

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just feeding the beast

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we're just boiling the machines of our

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own imprisonment and so it never really

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works if you just keep letting it say

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anything to say about UFO how you're

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gonna figure out what's going on when

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the UFO when all the evidence is coming

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from the UFO so if the UFO is deceiving

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us well it's the magician if you look

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the closer you look at the magician the

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more you're gonna get tricked because he

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knows how to direct your attention so

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that that's the level again that we have

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to learn to player we have to develop

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the tools to actually direct our own

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attention rather than let it be directed

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by the thing that we're looking at

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that's that's excellent and I don't I

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don't disagree with any of that you know

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let me just for the sake of being

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skeptic oh yeah kind of poke into that a

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little in a way that doesn't really

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contradict what you're saying but I

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think adds a different shade to it that

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I don't see talked about a lot and

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that's that the conspiratorial /

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paranoid perspective I think sometimes

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leaves out another reality of kind of

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how the world works reality and one of

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the things I want to play around with is

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this you know you can't handle the truth

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kind of Jack Nicholson a few good men

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you know which does there's an essential

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truth to that we need to talk about

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right so he stands up there and he says

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you can't handle the truth you know I

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have men that stand on a wall because

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you at night sleep better knowing that

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I'm up there defending it and that's

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[\h__\h] the truth you know what I mean

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we can't handle the fact that we don't

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want sorry

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[Music]

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we don't want chai khon to roll down the

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streets and take stuff over no matter

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what our political flavor is but there's

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that side of it that I think comes into

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play is that we've given up some control

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we've kind of turned a blind eye because

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we can't handle the truth but there's

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also this other part of it is you know

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you don't deserve the truth and what I

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always think about is I did a show a

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while back with Jim Marrs who has left

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us but was such a great interesting guy

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no matter what you thought of him and

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and he did so much great work on

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conspiracy stuff before it was even real

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but we talked about Donald Rumsfeld

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y'all remember the old Donald Rumsfeld

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Secretary of State the guy who brought

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us diet coke aspartame was completely

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the FDA I bet couldn't fall asleep on

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that and said no we can't let that's

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that's total cancer at genic crap and

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down our own shield said hey I know some

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people you make me the CEO I'll get that

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through and he did and he was rewarded

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with tens of millions of dollars and

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then later he became Secretary of State

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but I digress because the real story of

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Donald Rumsfeld is when 9/11 happens

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year later Donald Rumsfeld says building

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seven what's building seven so it

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slipped past a lot of people but I've

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latched on to that that is you don't

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deserve the truth it's like look if you

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are stupid enough to believe that I

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don't know what building seven is that I

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don't know a lot of [\h__\h] that you don't

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know if you're stupid enough to swallow

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my crap then you don't even deserve

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you're not even in the game you're such

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a peon that's what he's signaling that's

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what he's saying and the people who do

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know who throw up their arms and

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frustration he's saying screw you I'm

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here and you're there you're

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peon you can't touch me I'm gonna stand

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up here and say building seven

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what's building seven all the Joe

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schmo's out there all the normies that

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say I don't know what building seven is

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that's okay I'm with them was a bit of a

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rant there but tell me what you think

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about kind of deconstructing a little

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bit that paranoia that justified

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paranoia that we all have associated

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with conspiracies well I think what you

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just described there one things occur

269
00:11:48,389 --> 00:11:46,360
space in feeds into the polarization

270
00:11:50,550 --> 00:11:48,399
because I'm sure you're aware I mean

271
00:11:52,259 --> 00:11:50,560
doing this to show that you do and the

272
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climate that we're in now with Trump and

273
00:11:59,309 --> 00:11:56,230
all that the polarization has always

274
00:12:03,090 --> 00:11:59,319
been present around conspiracy theory of

275
00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:03,100
conspiracy fact as well of course but

276
00:12:06,420 --> 00:12:04,810
it's only getting greater and what you

277
00:12:08,610 --> 00:12:06,430
describe though with Rumsfeld I mean it

278
00:12:10,470 --> 00:12:08,620
occurred to me that that actually is a

279
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way to intensify the polarization

280
00:12:15,299 --> 00:12:11,680
because there are a whole bunch of

281
00:12:18,299 --> 00:12:15,309
people who are contemptuous of you know

282
00:12:20,309 --> 00:12:18,309
9/11 truthers or whatever and when they

283
00:12:22,350 --> 00:12:20,319
hear Rumsfeld say something like that

284
00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:22,360
they'll have a big laugh and say look

285
00:12:26,699 --> 00:12:24,610
even Rumsfeld doesn't know what they're

286
00:12:30,059 --> 00:12:26,709
talking about you know the building

287
00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:30,069
settlement is so irrelevant there even

288
00:12:34,980 --> 00:12:31,930
Rome you know that they will go along

289
00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:34,990
with Rumsfeld kind of acting his

290
00:12:38,490 --> 00:12:36,370
performance whether or not they believe

291
00:12:41,999 --> 00:12:38,500
it or whatever level of consciousness

292
00:12:44,809 --> 00:12:42,009
they're at it gives the the mockers and

293
00:12:47,549 --> 00:12:44,819
the de riders and the debunkers

294
00:12:49,139 --> 00:12:47,559
validation evolved while at the same

295
00:12:51,110 --> 00:12:49,149
time is obviously having the opposite

296
00:12:54,329 --> 00:12:51,120
effect on those who've done the research

297
00:12:55,829 --> 00:12:54,339
including those who are you know maybe

298
00:12:57,509 --> 00:12:55,839
haven't done the research but just

299
00:12:59,670 --> 00:12:57,519
believed it because they believed it

300
00:13:01,439 --> 00:12:59,680
like let's not fool ourselves there are

301
00:13:04,049 --> 00:13:01,449
a bunch of conspiracy theorists and

302
00:13:06,449 --> 00:13:04,059
different you know groups and websites

303
00:13:10,949 --> 00:13:06,459
and the rest of it that are very you

304
00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:10,959
know on non rigorous and and I don't

305
00:13:15,179 --> 00:13:12,610
want to go on and on but my real point

306
00:13:17,970 --> 00:13:15,189
was that there is something beyond

307
00:13:20,340 --> 00:13:17,980
misinformation going on here there's

308
00:13:22,410 --> 00:13:20,350
there's a game playing aspect to it that

309
00:13:22,900 --> 00:13:22,420
you're alluding to because I think what

310
00:13:26,830 --> 00:13:22,910
Donald

311
00:13:30,010 --> 00:13:26,840
so is saying is [\h__\h] you think [\h__\h] you

312
00:13:31,780 --> 00:13:30,020
yeah I know what it is and I don't you

313
00:13:34,690 --> 00:13:31,790
know what I don't need to tell you the

314
00:13:37,060 --> 00:13:34,700
truth so to the idiots who who just

315
00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:37,070
think oh yeah it must not be true he's

316
00:13:41,560 --> 00:13:39,290
not talking to them he's talking to the

317
00:13:43,330 --> 00:13:41,570
people who say how can you possibly

318
00:13:45,670 --> 00:13:43,340
think you can get away with this and

319
00:13:47,410 --> 00:13:45,680
he's saying [\h__\h] yes I'm getting away

320
00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:47,420
with this screw you

321
00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:49,490
well I think they wouldn't want to

322
00:13:55,180 --> 00:13:53,090
underestimate you know the levels at

323
00:13:57,250 --> 00:13:55,190
which someone like Rumsfeld is operating

324
00:13:59,640 --> 00:13:57,260
like he's not just throwing things out

325
00:14:03,550 --> 00:13:59,650
for his own ego satisfaction or to get

326
00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:03,560
digging at people it's all you know

327
00:14:09,310 --> 00:14:05,930
perception management so a comment like

328
00:14:11,530 --> 00:14:09,320
that would be written and scripted and

329
00:14:13,510 --> 00:14:11,540
you know acted out to have precise

330
00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:13,520
effects which would include the ones

331
00:14:20,030 --> 00:14:15,890
that you're talking about but not be you

332
00:14:30,439 --> 00:14:23,269
and what was going to say about that as

333
00:14:32,300 --> 00:14:30,449
well that's a good point it so if you

334
00:14:34,970 --> 00:14:32,310
want to continue on that please do

335
00:14:37,879 --> 00:14:34,980
because you can't overplay that because

336
00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:37,889
he's in a box too in terms of you know

337
00:14:41,710 --> 00:14:39,810
how much he can really play the game

338
00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:41,720
versus how much he has to follow his

339
00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:44,610
script and yeah get out there and you

340
00:14:49,780 --> 00:14:47,490
know George Bush standing in front of

341
00:14:53,150 --> 00:14:49,790
the UN saying you know we shall not

342
00:14:54,710 --> 00:14:53,160
believe in these conspiracy theories you

343
00:14:57,230 --> 00:14:54,720
know I mean that's signaling on there

344
00:14:59,480 --> 00:14:57,240
all this stuff is multi-layered but yeah

345
00:15:02,960 --> 00:14:59,490
and I mean your original point of it was

346
00:15:06,379 --> 00:15:02,970
the Jack Nicholson speech is that there

347
00:15:10,009 --> 00:15:06,389
are two different rationales these

348
00:15:13,249 --> 00:15:10,019
people have one of them is Nobel in

349
00:15:16,370 --> 00:15:13,259
quotes if delusion delusionally Nobel as

350
00:15:18,769 --> 00:15:16,380
in people aren't ready to hear the truth

351
00:15:20,449 --> 00:15:18,779
they need to be protected from the truth

352
00:15:22,850 --> 00:15:20,459
or at least the truth needs to be

353
00:15:27,980 --> 00:15:22,860
protected from them and then the other

354
00:15:30,379 --> 00:15:27,990
which is not so noble is you know people

355
00:15:32,629 --> 00:15:30,389
are just ignorant fools and but it's

356
00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:32,639
kind of it's similar on the same in

357
00:15:35,689 --> 00:15:34,170
certain ways they can't be trusted with

358
00:15:38,449 --> 00:15:35,699
the truth because they don't have the

359
00:15:43,100 --> 00:15:38,459
discernment to know what it is no mind

360
00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:43,110
to know what to do with it right but one

361
00:15:49,639 --> 00:15:47,130
has one has a certain psychopathic

362
00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:49,649
element to it that you know we have to

363
00:15:54,350 --> 00:15:52,050
just that word gets thrown along thrown

364
00:15:57,309 --> 00:15:54,360
around a lot but we have technology that

365
00:15:59,300 --> 00:15:57,319
that's real there are some people

366
00:16:01,610 --> 00:15:59,310
psychologically we can measure them and

367
00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:01,620
say they just do not have that sense of

368
00:16:09,139 --> 00:16:04,250
empathy and in a lot of these situations

369
00:16:11,179 --> 00:16:09,149
that makes them extremely powerful in

370
00:16:13,730 --> 00:16:11,189
terms you know if you really don't care

371
00:16:16,910 --> 00:16:13,740
about other people and if you really

372
00:16:19,429 --> 00:16:16,920
think that in this narcissistic my

373
00:16:20,150 --> 00:16:19,439
getting my way is all that really

374
00:16:22,610 --> 00:16:20,160
matters

375
00:16:24,769 --> 00:16:22,620
there's a huge edge the power that goes

376
00:16:28,699 --> 00:16:24,779
with that because most of us just can't

377
00:16:30,620 --> 00:16:28,709
can't do that at the end of the day well

378
00:16:33,139 --> 00:16:30,630
some that Graham Greene wrote I was

379
00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:33,149
remembered as the English righties he

380
00:16:36,710 --> 00:16:34,410
said something to the effect that

381
00:16:41,660 --> 00:16:36,720
those who love humanity don't give a

382
00:16:43,519 --> 00:16:41,670
damn about human beings and I think that

383
00:16:47,180 --> 00:16:43,529
something more like that is going on

384
00:16:49,220 --> 00:16:47,190
with what would often terming

385
00:16:52,369 --> 00:16:49,230
Psychopaths as in these very high power

386
00:16:55,759 --> 00:16:52,379
figures who are directing society you

387
00:16:58,610 --> 00:16:55,769
know down all kinds of roads that seem

388
00:17:00,199 --> 00:16:58,620
really destructive and deceptive and all

389
00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:00,209
the rest of it and exploited

390
00:17:05,390 --> 00:17:02,850
I do think like the obvious you know

391
00:17:08,899 --> 00:17:05,400
cliche example out of Hitler that they

392
00:17:11,179 --> 00:17:08,909
tend to have very lofty goals and they

393
00:17:15,380 --> 00:17:11,189
tend to believe that they're pursuing

394
00:17:19,399 --> 00:17:15,390
some higher end there any kind of means

395
00:17:22,610 --> 00:17:19,409
are justified in order to achieve it and

396
00:17:26,179 --> 00:17:22,620
I think that's that's also inseparable

397
00:17:31,340 --> 00:17:26,189
from this this thing of the the belief

398
00:17:34,390 --> 00:17:31,350
that people can't handle the truth that

399
00:17:39,380 --> 00:17:34,400
most people don't have the overview of

400
00:17:44,120 --> 00:17:39,390
the the global situation that the social

401
00:17:46,250 --> 00:17:44,130
engineers have and most people because

402
00:17:48,770 --> 00:17:46,260
they've of course we've not been given

403
00:17:51,350 --> 00:17:48,780
the toolset we don't we not been allowed

404
00:17:56,960 --> 00:17:51,360
to have that viewpoint so it's a bit of

405
00:18:02,570 --> 00:17:56,970
a circular reasoning there but I think

406
00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:02,580
that you know part of the rationale

407
00:18:07,850 --> 00:18:04,770
behind keeping most people in the dark

408
00:18:11,180 --> 00:18:07,860
and manipulating them and treating them

409
00:18:14,990 --> 00:18:11,190
like cattle it's a self-fulfilling

410
00:18:17,990 --> 00:18:15,000
rational let's say and the more that

411
00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:18,000
people are kept in the dark the less

412
00:18:23,270 --> 00:18:20,730
tools they have for understanding

413
00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:23,280
reality or social reality even I mean

414
00:18:27,350 --> 00:18:25,770
just at that level the less the more in

415
00:18:30,110 --> 00:18:27,360
the dark they're going to become right

416
00:18:34,510 --> 00:18:30,120
so the basically accelerates intensified

417
00:18:37,279 --> 00:18:34,520
and then and that intensifies also the

418
00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:37,289
the investment that people have at an

419
00:18:40,850 --> 00:18:38,970
individual and the collective level of

420
00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:40,860
not seeing the truth and I think this is

421
00:18:47,869 --> 00:18:44,730
becoming more and more observable in our

422
00:18:49,789 --> 00:18:47,879
society now with the polarizer

423
00:18:52,069 --> 00:18:49,799
and conspiracy theory that you will

424
00:18:55,879 --> 00:18:52,079
encounter people I'm sure you have often

425
00:18:57,680 --> 00:18:55,889
and I do constantly who simply want to

426
00:19:00,379 --> 00:18:57,690
talk about conspiracy theory as if it

427
00:19:05,059 --> 00:19:00,389
was one thing and if it as if it was all

428
00:19:07,009 --> 00:19:05,069
equally dismissible they will ignore and

429
00:19:09,079 --> 00:19:07,019
completely overlook the fact that some

430
00:19:11,149 --> 00:19:09,089
conspiracy theories are not serious at

431
00:19:14,029 --> 00:19:11,159
all they're just part of history that

432
00:19:15,919 --> 00:19:14,039
just conspiracy facts and then that

433
00:19:17,930 --> 00:19:15,929
there are plenty of facts around

434
00:19:19,579 --> 00:19:17,940
conspiracy that one can theorize about

435
00:19:21,379 --> 00:19:19,589
what one doesn't have - one can just

436
00:19:23,539 --> 00:19:21,389
stay with the fact and so on as a

437
00:19:26,239 --> 00:19:23,549
spectrum was a conspiracy spectrum

438
00:19:28,879 --> 00:19:26,249
ranging from historical fact to you know

439
00:19:32,269 --> 00:19:28,889
the most lunatic fringe speckles of Flat

440
00:19:45,219 --> 00:19:32,279
Earth stuff I not to discount Flat Earth

441
00:19:50,659 --> 00:19:47,809
but the thing that's consistent

442
00:19:55,789 --> 00:19:50,669
throughout many if not most of these

443
00:19:58,309 --> 00:19:55,799
conspiracies as they do provide evidence

444
00:20:01,789 --> 00:19:58,319
that our leaders are not to be trusted

445
00:20:04,279 --> 00:20:01,799
that our social reality is not what it

446
00:20:06,949 --> 00:20:04,289
appears to be that our institutions do

447
00:20:09,199 --> 00:20:06,959
not have our interests at heart the you

448
00:20:11,299 --> 00:20:09,209
know organized pedophile rings might be

449
00:20:13,669 --> 00:20:11,309
abusing our children if we send them off

450
00:20:15,589 --> 00:20:13,679
to daycare and so under the food might

451
00:20:17,239 --> 00:20:15,599
be designed to kill us and so on I mean

452
00:20:19,459 --> 00:20:17,249
I could go on and on right about all is

453
00:20:21,169 --> 00:20:19,469
it but basically all of these things if

454
00:20:22,819 --> 00:20:21,179
people start to take them on board and

455
00:20:26,779 --> 00:20:22,829
really think about them they're going to

456
00:20:29,719 --> 00:20:26,789
become less and less secure and stable

457
00:20:32,089 --> 00:20:29,729
within their day-to-day lives and that

458
00:20:33,889 --> 00:20:32,099
they're already feeling destabilized

459
00:20:36,049 --> 00:20:33,899
right I think that this is all quite

460
00:20:38,419 --> 00:20:36,059
deliberately orchestrated not at a micro

461
00:20:40,430 --> 00:20:38,429
level but at a more macro level and then

462
00:20:41,899 --> 00:20:40,440
it filters down to the micro so even

463
00:20:43,369 --> 00:20:41,909
down to entertainment like with the

464
00:20:44,749 --> 00:20:43,379
entertainment you're like I get your

465
00:20:46,279 --> 00:20:44,759
point I get your point I kind of feel

466
00:20:48,019 --> 00:20:46,289
like you kind of mixed a couple things

467
00:20:50,569 --> 00:20:48,029
in there in an interesting way that I'd

468
00:20:54,199 --> 00:20:50,579
like to pull back apart I mean the whole

469
00:20:56,839 --> 00:20:54,209
pedo thing is super important and

470
00:20:59,419 --> 00:20:56,849
interesting about a bunch on this show

471
00:21:00,470 --> 00:20:59,429
you know it's the pizza gate phenomena

472
00:21:02,150 --> 00:21:00,480
where

473
00:21:04,220 --> 00:21:02,160
perfect SIOP you know or most people

474
00:21:06,530 --> 00:21:04,230
think you know pizza gate it's not about

475
00:21:08,780 --> 00:21:06,540
all those emails it's not about spirit

476
00:21:11,419 --> 00:21:08,790
cooking it's not about provable sex

477
00:21:13,700 --> 00:21:11,429
rings and the association between John

478
00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:13,710
Podesta and Dennis Hastert it's not

479
00:21:19,340 --> 00:21:16,410
about all that provable stuff Denis

480
00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:19,350
hazard who was the disc lauraball the

481
00:21:23,090 --> 00:21:21,450
judge who sentenced him on sex crimes

482
00:21:25,190 --> 00:21:23,100
against children said he was one of the

483
00:21:27,590 --> 00:21:25,200
worst examples he's had ever seen in his

484
00:21:29,630 --> 00:21:27,600
court no it's not about any of that it's

485
00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:29,640
about some guy who shot up a pizza

486
00:21:32,539 --> 00:21:30,450
restaurant

487
00:21:34,039 --> 00:21:32,549
so that's the SIOP part of that but I

488
00:21:37,159 --> 00:21:34,049
digress because what I was really

489
00:21:40,370 --> 00:21:37,169
talking about was I think that's almost

490
00:21:46,220 --> 00:21:40,380
of a different ilk you know that's

491
00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:46,230
because of the whatever dark evilness is

492
00:21:53,210 --> 00:21:49,610
there and whatever political blackmail

493
00:21:56,120 --> 00:21:53,220
opportunity is there and whatever you

494
00:21:58,310 --> 00:21:56,130
know other things are there that they

495
00:22:01,760 --> 00:21:58,320
don't want they have a different agenda

496
00:22:04,100 --> 00:22:01,770
on that I would say I would guess than

497
00:22:06,710 --> 00:22:04,110
they do on you know fluoridated water

498
00:22:10,159 --> 00:22:06,720
and global warming which it's really

499
00:22:12,770 --> 00:22:10,169
kind of more clear to see hey anything

500
00:22:15,340 --> 00:22:12,780
global in it we pretty much know what

501
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:15,350
the agenda is you know it's like

502
00:22:19,730 --> 00:22:17,970
globalization you know give us let's all

503
00:22:21,919 --> 00:22:19,740
just become one so we can get you in a

504
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:21,929
big pack and control you better so

505
00:22:25,909 --> 00:22:23,610
without getting into the whole global

506
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:25,919
warming thing you know why is it so tied

507
00:22:31,850 --> 00:22:28,890
to a worldwide currency and carbon

508
00:22:34,700 --> 00:22:31,860
trading well because that makes a sense

509
00:22:37,820 --> 00:22:34,710
from a politically driven thing I don't

510
00:22:40,250 --> 00:22:37,830
think there's a parallel with the pedo

511
00:22:43,580 --> 00:22:40,260
thing I mean I think that you have to

512
00:22:45,770 --> 00:22:43,590
look at the occulted the occult and just

513
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:45,780
the nature of evil kind of thing in

514
00:22:52,070 --> 00:22:48,690
order to get there and I know those

515
00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:52,080
lines aren't perfectly you know black

516
00:22:56,450 --> 00:22:54,090
and white but but I do think you know

517
00:22:58,070 --> 00:22:56,460
you have to kind of divide things and

518
00:23:00,680 --> 00:22:58,080
that's like I'm I'm just talking about

519
00:23:02,330 --> 00:23:00,690
in the you know the get our done you

520
00:23:04,340 --> 00:23:02,340
can't handle the truth you know people

521
00:23:06,980 --> 00:23:04,350
do have a reason just to kind of get

522
00:23:09,890 --> 00:23:06,990
[\h__\h] done you know I mean somebody's got

523
00:23:12,710 --> 00:23:09,900
to rule the world or someone else will

524
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:12,720
world the world and if we were faced

525
00:23:15,980 --> 00:23:14,010
with the options

526
00:23:18,590 --> 00:23:15,990
that some of those people face we would

527
00:23:20,780 --> 00:23:18,600
probably make the same decisions on the

528
00:23:23,990 --> 00:23:20,790
other hand when you step into the

529
00:23:27,860 --> 00:23:24,000
capetto sex ring stuff we probably would

530
00:23:32,810 --> 00:23:27,870
not make the same decisions you design

531
00:23:35,060 --> 00:23:32,820
any of that same but it does I guess it

532
00:23:37,910 --> 00:23:35,070
brings it closer to my own hunting

533
00:23:39,710 --> 00:23:37,920
ground then because this is my my

534
00:23:45,430 --> 00:23:39,720
approach is prisoner infinity and what I

535
00:23:53,180 --> 00:23:51,170
all the different let's say global or

536
00:23:55,430 --> 00:23:53,190
collective pathologies which can be

537
00:23:57,530 --> 00:23:55,440
traced in you know big-picture stuff

538
00:24:01,610 --> 00:23:57,540
like world wars or global you know

539
00:24:07,820 --> 00:24:01,620
environmental collapses or all of that

540
00:24:13,220 --> 00:24:07,830
stuff you know it on the one hand it

541
00:24:15,230 --> 00:24:13,230
historically intersects with child

542
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:15,240
trafficking as in with Hillary Clinton

543
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:16,890
in Haiti and all that stuff that also

544
00:24:25,700 --> 00:24:20,850
came out by a piece gay because the same

545
00:24:29,330 --> 00:24:25,710
agendas incorporate various different

546
00:24:32,120 --> 00:24:29,340
you know area so MKULTRA was about mind

547
00:24:33,950 --> 00:24:32,130
control which relates to creating

548
00:24:35,900 --> 00:24:33,960
different players with on the world

549
00:24:38,930 --> 00:24:35,910
stage whether it's assassins or it's

550
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:38,940
cultural figures and so on but it also

551
00:24:44,150 --> 00:24:42,330
relates to the system is organized abuse

552
00:24:47,060 --> 00:24:44,160
of children it also relates to

553
00:24:48,950 --> 00:24:47,070
alcoholism and so on so all that that's

554
00:24:50,810 --> 00:24:48,960
quite a wide spectrum in terms of the

555
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:50,820
different areas in the war on the world

556
00:24:55,430 --> 00:24:52,650
stage that we might see the effects of

557
00:24:58,460 --> 00:24:55,440
something like MKULTRA but more I mean

558
00:25:02,240 --> 00:24:58,470
more specifically or more precisely what

559
00:25:04,310 --> 00:25:02,250
what I have found was a fruitful

560
00:25:07,490 --> 00:25:04,320
approach for understanding the big

561
00:25:11,120 --> 00:25:07,500
picture was actually looking at the the

562
00:25:13,490 --> 00:25:11,130
the motivating drives behind the

563
00:25:15,830 --> 00:25:13,500
individuals that can be identified who

564
00:25:18,260 --> 00:25:15,840
are shaping the cultural programs and

565
00:25:20,210 --> 00:25:18,270
movements and policies so hence you

566
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:20,220
something right with least Reba is a

567
00:25:25,790 --> 00:25:23,610
very I mean anyone real not anyone but

568
00:25:27,860 --> 00:25:25,800
if you're going to try and understand

569
00:25:29,900 --> 00:25:27,870
something on a large scale

570
00:25:31,670 --> 00:25:29,910
to narrow the focus down and look at one

571
00:25:34,910 --> 00:25:31,680
specific example otherwise you get

572
00:25:38,750 --> 00:25:34,920
overwhelmed let's do that you've set the

573
00:25:42,340 --> 00:25:38,760
table perfectly to move into talking

574
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:42,350
about whitley strip whitley strieber

575
00:25:47,930 --> 00:25:46,530
because i want to jump in there and pull

576
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:47,940
apart what you're saying but there's no

577
00:25:52,460 --> 00:25:49,050
need to so I'm gonna edit this a little

578
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:52,470
bit out but III do think it's easy to

579
00:25:57,170 --> 00:25:54,930
kind of blur some things together and I

580
00:26:00,580 --> 00:25:57,180
like the the model of coming back and

581
00:26:03,740 --> 00:26:00,590
saying you know you could sell me on

582
00:26:05,360 --> 00:26:03,750
some of the evil some of the stuff that

583
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:05,370
looks like evil in the world you could

584
00:26:09,380 --> 00:26:07,290
sell me on some of the wars you could

585
00:26:12,260 --> 00:26:09,390
sell me on some of the bombing you could

586
00:26:14,390 --> 00:26:12,270
sell me on some of the other despicable

587
00:26:16,669 --> 00:26:14,400
looking stuff that goes on because it's

588
00:26:19,340 --> 00:26:16,679
a kind of choice between two evils and

589
00:26:22,610 --> 00:26:19,350
then there's another element of it that

590
00:26:26,450 --> 00:26:22,620
would never I could never cross that

591
00:26:29,120 --> 00:26:26,460
line you know morally and and I think

592
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:29,130
there is that the wisdom of the crowd

593
00:26:33,890 --> 00:26:31,770
kind of dividing line there and then I

594
00:26:34,970 --> 00:26:33,900
think there's these people that and

595
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:34,980
that's where I think the psychopathic

596
00:26:40,070 --> 00:26:38,010
thing comes in who just transcend way

597
00:26:42,410 --> 00:26:40,080
over that in a way where they can kind

598
00:26:44,540 --> 00:26:42,420
of play both sides and pull people over

599
00:26:45,919 --> 00:26:44,550
to one or the other where people are

600
00:26:47,630 --> 00:26:45,929
involved in and that's where we'll get

601
00:26:50,570 --> 00:26:47,640
into talking about your experience with

602
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:50,580
the occult thing because I love how you

603
00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:54,090
say you can say you're not going all the

604
00:27:00,140 --> 00:26:57,210
way but you just get to the point where

605
00:27:02,450 --> 00:27:00,150
there you are you gotta cut the cat you

606
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:02,460
know got the get throat or not but I

607
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:04,050
digress against the other stuff I would

608
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:05,610
like to talk about well I'm gonna cut

609
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:05,970
that out

610
00:27:14,410 --> 00:27:10,050
cuz let's talk about whitley strieber

611
00:27:19,700 --> 00:27:14,420
and if you could let's try this Jason

612
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:19,710
let's tell people Whitley Strieber from

613
00:27:26,210 --> 00:27:23,010
the wonderful Wikipedia kind of overview

614
00:27:30,020 --> 00:27:26,220
a high-level overview who he is and then

615
00:27:32,630 --> 00:27:30,030
one layer of the onion down you know who

616
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:32,640
he might be with your first layer of

617
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:35,490
analysis and then we can get into the

618
00:27:41,180 --> 00:27:38,970
really deep stuff so you want to jump in

619
00:27:42,019 --> 00:27:41,190
there with the first layer sure okay

620
00:27:48,529 --> 00:27:42,029
solutely

621
00:27:51,830 --> 00:27:48,539
triva horror fiction writer who studied

622
00:27:54,830 --> 00:27:51,840
with the Goethe foundation I guess in

623
00:27:57,459 --> 00:27:54,840
the 70s who was working for an

624
00:28:00,229 --> 00:27:57,469
advertising agent and he started writing

625
00:28:02,389 --> 00:28:00,239
published to her best sellers The

626
00:28:04,279 --> 00:28:02,399
Wolfman and the hunger he's successful

627
00:28:06,589 --> 00:28:04,289
he's he that he pops on the stage is a

628
00:28:08,839 --> 00:28:06,599
successful writer that's who he is

629
00:28:10,909 --> 00:28:08,849
yeah very very quickly like to Hollywood

630
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:10,919
deals with his first two novels so he

631
00:28:15,789 --> 00:28:12,690
would have become rich and a little bit

632
00:28:19,909 --> 00:28:15,799
famous right out the gate and then

633
00:28:23,450 --> 00:28:19,919
another novel or two later he has the

634
00:28:24,769 --> 00:28:23,460
communion experience the alleged I

635
00:28:26,509 --> 00:28:24,779
suppose I should say community

636
00:28:29,659 --> 00:28:26,519
experience he writes communion which he

637
00:28:31,849 --> 00:28:29,669
published in 1987 that was a big success

638
00:28:35,060 --> 00:28:31,859
- like a million dollar advance on that

639
00:28:37,190 --> 00:28:35,070
and that was the beginning of his career

640
00:28:40,519 --> 00:28:37,200
as whitley strieber as he is known today

641
00:28:42,799 --> 00:28:40,529
the host of dreamland so before we leave

642
00:28:46,129 --> 00:28:42,809
that I mean communion I mean this is a

643
00:28:48,379 --> 00:28:46,139
huge event I mean let's remember you

644
00:28:51,190 --> 00:28:48,389
know remind people and remind each other

645
00:28:53,629 --> 00:28:51,200
I remember when communion came out and

646
00:28:55,849 --> 00:28:53,639
his concern one of his stated concerns

647
00:28:58,669 --> 00:28:55,859
was this is going to trigger a bunch of

648
00:29:01,339 --> 00:28:58,679
people it's gonna cause memories of

649
00:29:03,349 --> 00:29:01,349
their own abduction thing and you know

650
00:29:05,389 --> 00:29:03,359
we're setting up a whole network because

651
00:29:06,649 --> 00:29:05,399
this whole thing is gonna happen and do

652
00:29:10,759 --> 00:29:06,659
you remember that whole thing I mean

653
00:29:15,919 --> 00:29:10,769
communion was a social movement as much

654
00:29:18,589 --> 00:29:15,929
as it was a look because it was about et

655
00:29:21,139 --> 00:29:18,599
contact being real being suppressed in

656
00:29:23,389 --> 00:29:21,149
people's memories and that this book was

657
00:29:27,739 --> 00:29:23,399
going to bring those to the surface and

658
00:29:31,489 --> 00:29:27,749
it and it did absolutely yeah and I mean

659
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:31,499
it was the ground had been tilled if you

660
00:29:35,119 --> 00:29:33,570
like before that for a few years with

661
00:29:37,039 --> 00:29:35,129
Budd Hopkins because his written at

662
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:37,049
least one but I guess missing time

663
00:29:44,479 --> 00:29:39,570
perhaps was his first and stream of went

664
00:29:46,909 --> 00:29:44,489
was sent to vertical Hopkins in order to

665
00:29:49,159 --> 00:29:46,919
well I don't know if he was sent he was

666
00:29:51,379 --> 00:29:49,169
referred to Bob Budd Hopkins and he

667
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:51,389
spoke to both Hopkins and meta and Budd

668
00:29:59,180 --> 00:29:57,320
hypnotized him and he did at least one

669
00:30:01,370 --> 00:29:59,190
hypnotic session about Hopkins because

670
00:30:03,770 --> 00:30:01,380
there are recordings so anyways

671
00:30:06,740 --> 00:30:03,780
regression sessions and I am who you

672
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:06,750
that the Russian sessions are available

673
00:30:12,620 --> 00:30:09,810
on Whitley's website which i think is

674
00:30:14,660 --> 00:30:12,630
incredibly open right I think so too and

675
00:30:16,850 --> 00:30:14,670
this is something to streamers credit

676
00:30:21,170 --> 00:30:16,860
and I think it really strengthens the

677
00:30:24,370 --> 00:30:21,180
case for him really being an honest and

678
00:30:27,650 --> 00:30:24,380
sincere person so far as he's capable

679
00:30:30,710 --> 00:30:27,660
and I have to add that proviso at the

680
00:30:32,330 --> 00:30:30,720
end because I think one of the things I

681
00:30:34,370 --> 00:30:32,340
discovered looking with a streamer and

682
00:30:36,470 --> 00:30:34,380
now again into the second level with his

683
00:30:38,740 --> 00:30:36,480
how many contradictions there are in his

684
00:30:40,910 --> 00:30:38,750
writings I mean they just became

685
00:30:43,220 --> 00:30:40,920
overwhelming after a certain point they

686
00:30:44,750 --> 00:30:43,230
began just to be you know philosophical

687
00:30:46,100 --> 00:30:44,760
contradictions as in you would have a

688
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:46,110
positive point of view and then a

689
00:30:51,050 --> 00:30:48,450
negative but then they became actual

690
00:30:52,460 --> 00:30:51,060
factual contradictions and so on so

691
00:30:54,500 --> 00:30:52,470
let's jump in there and just do a little

692
00:30:56,710 --> 00:30:54,510
bit of a back feel there because you are

693
00:30:58,850 --> 00:30:56,720
getting into some fantastically

694
00:31:01,250 --> 00:30:58,860
provocative interesting stuff that's in

695
00:31:04,460 --> 00:31:01,260
the book prisoner of infinity but that's

696
00:31:06,710 --> 00:31:04,470
that so this communion cultural movement

697
00:31:08,300 --> 00:31:06,720
happens and him and Budd Hopkins say

698
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:08,310
it's okay to come out and talk about

699
00:31:12,620 --> 00:31:10,410
your abduction experience and don't

700
00:31:15,950 --> 00:31:12,630
worry we're here for you and it's like

701
00:31:18,140 --> 00:31:15,960
this major thing and thousands of people

702
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:18,150
are having us in he's then saying that

703
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:20,490
you know what the implication is et is

704
00:31:27,950 --> 00:31:23,250
here et has something going on there you

705
00:31:29,510 --> 00:31:27,960
know whether it's transmutation of this

706
00:31:34,010 --> 00:31:29,520
beast whatever we don't we don't know

707
00:31:38,060 --> 00:31:34,020
but this is 1990 it's a long time ago in

708
00:31:40,670 --> 00:31:38,070
their days added and at some point he

709
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:40,680
becomes somewhat of a joke I mean

710
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:44,010
because he gets for whatever reason I'd

711
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:45,570
love to get your opinion on that but

712
00:31:51,650 --> 00:31:48,930
kind of the meme shifts and it's like no

713
00:31:53,900 --> 00:31:51,660
he's crazy he's you know he's kind of an

714
00:31:55,700 --> 00:31:53,910
outsider he's not part of the gang and

715
00:31:58,100 --> 00:31:55,710
what's he doing and even the UFO

716
00:31:59,960 --> 00:31:58,110
community is like who was this guy

717
00:32:01,670 --> 00:31:59,970
what's he about and then he shifts again

718
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:01,680
and he says you know it wasn't an

719
00:32:06,290 --> 00:32:04,530
abduction experience it was a contact

720
00:32:08,970 --> 00:32:06,300
experience and many ships again and says

721
00:32:10,980 --> 00:32:08,980
no it was a spiritual experience

722
00:32:15,890 --> 00:32:10,990
I don't even think there were aliens so

723
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:15,900
he's kind of gone through this very

724
00:32:22,740 --> 00:32:19,690
public journey of soul-searching and and

725
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:22,750
he is this kind of broken guy like you

726
00:32:26,340 --> 00:32:24,730
mentioned when you first when you hear

727
00:32:29,430 --> 00:32:26,350
them talking maybe we'll play a clip in

728
00:32:32,159 --> 00:32:29,440
a minute it's hard not to you know just

729
00:32:35,789 --> 00:32:32,169
kind of like feel that this guy is in

730
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:35,799
such pain you know so that that I wanted

731
00:32:42,140 --> 00:32:38,410
to add to the bio and now jump back in

732
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:42,150
there with what with what led you to say

733
00:32:51,210 --> 00:32:46,690
well okay on all that but there might be

734
00:32:53,789 --> 00:32:51,220
a whole different angle to it hmm yeah

735
00:32:55,830 --> 00:32:53,799
well I think I mean it's he's been at it

736
00:32:58,260 --> 00:32:55,840
for a very long time and to be fair to

737
00:33:00,659 --> 00:32:58,270
streamer I mean that spectrum of that

738
00:33:03,870 --> 00:33:00,669
gamut that you described it is mostly in

739
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:03,880
communion itself and as in you know he's

740
00:33:08,340 --> 00:33:05,410
looking at it from all these different

741
00:33:10,950 --> 00:33:08,350
angles and he he's never actually said

742
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:10,960
they were ETS and he's more actually

743
00:33:15,150 --> 00:33:13,450
he's more pulled the other way and you

744
00:33:17,070 --> 00:33:15,160
know tried to make out that this is an

745
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:17,080
unknown and we need to keep it as an

746
00:33:22,799 --> 00:33:20,410
unknown so but there's a contradiction

747
00:33:25,260 --> 00:33:22,809
in that also as I pointed out and beyond

748
00:33:27,539 --> 00:33:25,270
the communion and enigma he he has a

749
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:27,549
whole chapter about you know if this

750
00:33:33,780 --> 00:33:31,450
we're and et presence then you know this

751
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:33,790
let's look at it through that lens and

752
00:33:39,990 --> 00:33:37,690
so he sort of straddle this fence of

753
00:33:42,030 --> 00:33:40,000
wanting to constantly be insisting that

754
00:33:44,430 --> 00:33:42,040
this remain in question while at the

755
00:33:48,330 --> 00:33:44,440
same time I would say more subtly

756
00:33:50,940 --> 00:33:48,340
pushing for a narrative that contradicts

757
00:33:52,789 --> 00:33:50,950
the very thing that he's saying you know

758
00:33:55,620 --> 00:33:52,799
the rest of the time he's also said that

759
00:33:57,480 --> 00:33:55,630
his worst fear is that some sort of

760
00:33:59,610 --> 00:33:57,490
religion would grow up around what he's

761
00:34:01,289 --> 00:33:59,620
doing but at the same time it's as

762
00:34:04,230 --> 00:34:01,299
though he's unconsciously actually

763
00:34:08,099 --> 00:34:04,240
encouraging that he pointed out that

764
00:34:12,690 --> 00:34:08,109
like this movement I mean it's easy to

765
00:34:14,550 --> 00:34:12,700
see how streamer would unwittingly be

766
00:34:18,899 --> 00:34:14,560
instrumental in something and not

767
00:34:21,119 --> 00:34:18,909
realize what he was doing simply from a

768
00:34:22,409 --> 00:34:21,129
desire to be helpful so he he created

769
00:34:24,180 --> 00:34:22,419
the website many

770
00:34:26,190 --> 00:34:24,190
the people were having experiences that

771
00:34:27,629 --> 00:34:26,200
somehow seem similar like you said they

772
00:34:30,109 --> 00:34:27,639
were triggered by the book particularly

773
00:34:32,399 --> 00:34:30,119
the image on the cover which he since

774
00:34:35,220 --> 00:34:32,409
removed from the cover in more recent

775
00:34:36,859 --> 00:34:35,230
edition they would write to Street but

776
00:34:39,629 --> 00:34:36,869
they would then come to his website

777
00:34:41,129 --> 00:34:39,639
unknown country calm door was a forum

778
00:34:44,129 --> 00:34:41,139
there I've spoken to at least one person

779
00:34:45,839 --> 00:34:44,139
who was at that forum who eventually got

780
00:34:49,049 --> 00:34:45,849
kicked off the forum when she began

781
00:34:51,629 --> 00:34:49,059
talking about MKULTRA and her belief

782
00:34:53,839 --> 00:34:51,639
that she was being mind controlled she

783
00:34:57,119 --> 00:34:53,849
was just systematically all summarily

784
00:34:58,799 --> 00:34:57,129
banned from the website for talking

785
00:35:00,329 --> 00:34:58,809
about that and yet at the same time

786
00:35:03,210 --> 00:35:00,339
stream of himself

787
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:03,220
as more and more he's revealed more and

788
00:35:09,839 --> 00:35:05,290
more about his experiences as a child

789
00:35:12,630 --> 00:35:09,849
being experimented on being tortured

790
00:35:14,849 --> 00:35:12,640
being abused entering into dissociative

791
00:35:15,390 --> 00:35:14,859
States encountering the visitors as a

792
00:35:20,789 --> 00:35:15,400
child

793
00:35:25,829 --> 00:35:20,799
they're like full stop explain to people

794
00:35:27,750 --> 00:35:25,839
that whole thing because I heard it I

795
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:27,760
had to hear it a couple times before I

796
00:35:34,230 --> 00:35:30,970
was really able to take it in he's

797
00:35:37,940 --> 00:35:34,240
saying what happened to him at a very

798
00:35:45,089 --> 00:35:42,150
yeah there are no fan base his father I

799
00:35:46,770 --> 00:35:45,099
know it's hard to keep track of all the

800
00:35:49,410 --> 00:35:46,780
different variables and we straight his

801
00:35:53,220 --> 00:35:49,420
story but I know the stream of family a

802
00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:53,230
high level family and in San Antonio was

803
00:36:00,120 --> 00:35:57,010
it his uncle was it Roswell yeah that's

804
00:36:02,099 --> 00:36:00,130
right I was trying to remember Ricky and

805
00:36:04,980 --> 00:36:02,109
that it fits all these stories we hear

806
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:04,990
about these military families that then

807
00:36:13,010 --> 00:36:08,890
they show up but you know his his his

808
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:13,020
thing as a kid is just freakin

809
00:36:19,530 --> 00:36:16,170
unbelievable tell tell that story yeah

810
00:36:22,230 --> 00:36:19,540
he thinks it's true I found a video more

811
00:36:25,589 --> 00:36:22,240
recently about it's just a news clip

812
00:36:27,599 --> 00:36:25,599
from I guess the 60s or something it's

813
00:36:30,329 --> 00:36:27,609
black and white about MKULTRA

814
00:36:32,490 --> 00:36:30,339
experiments on adolescence in San

815
00:36:34,859 --> 00:36:32,500
Antonio Texas which is really really

816
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:34,869
very striking to me because I see places

817
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:36,010
they M Gail

818
00:36:40,620 --> 00:36:38,170
program right at the time and place of

819
00:36:42,780 --> 00:36:40,630
stream as memories even though he

820
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:42,790
disassociates them from MKULTRA for no

821
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:44,650
good reason I can think of but anyway so

822
00:36:53,250 --> 00:36:50,050
his father agreed that streamer as a

823
00:36:58,860 --> 00:36:53,260
child age 7 I believe would be inducted

824
00:37:00,990 --> 00:36:58,870
into this military program which was run

825
00:37:03,660 --> 00:37:01,000
by a German that he remembers 3

826
00:37:06,090 --> 00:37:03,670
remembers his doctor Antony Kraus I

827
00:37:11,250 --> 00:37:06,100
think it was Anthony dr. Krauss anyway

828
00:37:17,130 --> 00:37:11,260
and I mean this other guy I think what's

829
00:37:18,810 --> 00:37:17,140
his name Herbert as strughold know that

830
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:18,820
well I mean he could be linked history

831
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:20,410
but but that's not the one that streamer

832
00:37:24,780 --> 00:37:22,930
names cuz yeah that was actually the

833
00:37:27,240 --> 00:37:24,790
first I've heard of this guy the street

834
00:37:29,670 --> 00:37:27,250
I mean she was memories are nothing if

835
00:37:32,100 --> 00:37:29,680
not fragmented and chaotic around

836
00:37:34,980 --> 00:37:32,110
everything really but but so that would

837
00:37:39,240 --> 00:37:34,990
be that would be consistent with someone

838
00:37:43,140 --> 00:37:39,250
who's ok altered to the point where

839
00:37:44,850 --> 00:37:43,150
they're just Rama ties to you know the

840
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:44,860
one thing that got me about the Randolph

841
00:37:50,730 --> 00:37:48,610
thing is that he Whitley and again he

842
00:37:52,290 --> 00:37:50,740
seems like such a broke I'm not trying

843
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:52,300
to put the guy down I think he's awesome

844
00:37:57,990 --> 00:37:55,210
for being this open I could never

845
00:38:00,180 --> 00:37:58,000
imagine being as open as he is and

846
00:38:03,150 --> 00:38:00,190
that's I guess part of the reason I feel

847
00:38:04,530 --> 00:38:03,160
like it's kind of ok to talk about him

848
00:38:06,090 --> 00:38:04,540
in this way because he's kind of

849
00:38:08,700 --> 00:38:06,100
throwing this out there and saying help

850
00:38:10,470 --> 00:38:08,710
me kind of soar through this but you

851
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:10,480
know he recounts that one of the reasons

852
00:38:17,250 --> 00:38:13,090
he believes this so strongly is that he

853
00:38:19,260 --> 00:38:17,260
had a friend who was approached as well

854
00:38:21,290 --> 00:38:19,270
through his parents so he has a friend

855
00:38:23,970 --> 00:38:21,300
who's also nine years old and the

856
00:38:25,350 --> 00:38:23,980
military guys the Air Force guys show up

857
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:25,360
and they talked to the parents they go

858
00:38:31,050 --> 00:38:28,450
wow your boy is a special boy and we

859
00:38:33,390 --> 00:38:31,060
have a program for him only the dad was

860
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:33,400
kind of sharp enough to kind of ask some

861
00:38:37,230 --> 00:38:35,170
questions and at some point the guy said

862
00:38:38,850 --> 00:38:37,240
yeah and there's the Skinner box and

863
00:38:40,980 --> 00:38:38,860
this and that you know BF Skinner we're

864
00:38:42,750 --> 00:38:40,990
gonna put him like a rat and then and as

865
00:38:45,930 --> 00:38:42,760
it no I don't think this is for our

866
00:38:48,090 --> 00:38:45,940
special kid and I think that that it

867
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:48,100
this fits in was to a straighter story

868
00:38:51,089 --> 00:38:49,450
because he said you know

869
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:51,099
he doesn't blame his parents which is

870
00:38:54,540 --> 00:38:52,810
also kind of interesting to kind of when

871
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:54,550
you look back on this violent you blame

872
00:38:57,300 --> 00:38:55,930
your parents more but anyways you know

873
00:38:59,640 --> 00:38:57,310
he was dressed up in his Sunday best

874
00:39:01,800 --> 00:38:59,650
waiting for these guys to come pick him

875
00:39:03,180 --> 00:39:01,810
up for his special program but then when

876
00:39:04,950 --> 00:39:03,190
he gets there he sees these kids who are

877
00:39:06,660 --> 00:39:04,960
locked in cages and says that's what

878
00:39:09,180 --> 00:39:06,670
happens to kids who tell their parents

879
00:39:11,910 --> 00:39:09,190
what goes on here and then he's

880
00:39:16,530 --> 00:39:11,920
subjected to this just this horror

881
00:39:18,720 --> 00:39:16,540
horror yeah so ensue I mean streamers

882
00:39:20,579 --> 00:39:18,730
the way that he is interpreted these

883
00:39:22,589 --> 00:39:20,589
experiences is the way that Jeffrey

884
00:39:24,720 --> 00:39:22,599
[\h__\h] picked it up for his traumatic

885
00:39:29,550 --> 00:39:24,730
secret piece which kick-started Prisoner

886
00:39:31,650 --> 00:39:29,560
infinity which is the through the trauma

887
00:39:36,030 --> 00:39:31,660
the intense distress of being subjected

888
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:36,040
to these brutalities at the hands of the

889
00:39:41,069 --> 00:39:36,810
government

890
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:41,079
he how does he describe his mirror of

891
00:39:46,290 --> 00:39:44,050
expectation was shattered and he began

892
00:39:48,630 --> 00:39:46,300
to perceive other realities outside or

893
00:39:52,950 --> 00:39:48,640
beyond this one and that that allowed

894
00:39:55,950 --> 00:39:52,960
the visitors to to gain access to his

895
00:39:58,170 --> 00:39:55,960
reality and somehow the visitors you

896
00:40:00,000 --> 00:39:58,180
know intervened and rescued him but

897
00:40:03,359 --> 00:40:00,010
what's interesting and I think of key

898
00:40:05,970 --> 00:40:03,369
significance in that interpretation is

899
00:40:08,940 --> 00:40:05,980
that Streetman never addresses the

900
00:40:10,650 --> 00:40:08,950
question of because you know he's claims

901
00:40:13,530 --> 00:40:10,660
to be an alien abductee and and

902
00:40:15,870 --> 00:40:13,540
abduction is a physical event supposedly

903
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:15,880
so but he never addresses the question

904
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:18,130
is whether as a child in that Skinner

905
00:40:24,690 --> 00:40:21,930
box being tormented you know for

906
00:40:27,089 --> 00:40:24,700
whatever purposes whether he was

907
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:27,099
physically taken out by the visitors

908
00:40:31,530 --> 00:40:29,890
yeah the assumption being he wasn't

909
00:40:33,180 --> 00:40:31,540
because you think you would make a point

910
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:33,190
of saying that because it would be so

911
00:40:37,410 --> 00:40:35,050
remarkable if he was actually physically

912
00:40:39,630 --> 00:40:37,420
rescued by non-human beings from the

913
00:40:41,460 --> 00:40:39,640
hands of government torturers obviously

914
00:40:42,839 --> 00:40:41,470
that's a significant development he

915
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:42,849
doesn't address the question at all

916
00:40:46,170 --> 00:40:44,650
therefore I think one can only assume

917
00:40:49,140 --> 00:40:46,180
that he's not talking about a physical

918
00:40:51,329 --> 00:40:49,150
intervention but a psychic one that

919
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:51,339
while his body was being trauma not

920
00:40:56,790 --> 00:40:54,130
traumatized he was able to disembody or

921
00:40:58,170 --> 00:40:56,800
exterior eyes or dissociate and enter

922
00:41:00,210 --> 00:40:58,180
into this other realm where he

923
00:41:02,620 --> 00:41:00,220
encountered these beings that he later

924
00:41:07,150 --> 00:41:02,630
identified as the author of communion

925
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:07,160
as a visitor's who he's been presenting

926
00:41:11,170 --> 00:41:09,650
to the world ever since as you know in

927
00:41:14,650 --> 00:41:11,180
the various different ways that he's

928
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:14,660
been presenting so you know I think that

929
00:41:19,809 --> 00:41:17,930
I mean this is my key question with

930
00:41:23,109 --> 00:41:19,819
Prisoner infinity because I don't feel

931
00:41:24,460 --> 00:41:23,119
that I maybe anyone is is equipped to

932
00:41:26,950 --> 00:41:24,470
adjust the question of you know how we

933
00:41:28,989 --> 00:41:26,960
love the visitors because that's just

934
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:28,999
such I mean that's like asking how real

935
00:41:34,479 --> 00:41:31,729
is God you know it's just it's just

936
00:41:36,219 --> 00:41:34,489
beyond the scope of what I could study

937
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:36,229
anyway so I was just looking at

938
00:41:48,630 --> 00:41:42,890
streamers own testimony and so then the

939
00:41:52,299 --> 00:41:48,640
question becomes a much subtler question

940
00:41:56,019 --> 00:41:52,309
relating to you know to what extent is

941
00:41:57,630 --> 00:41:56,029
his experience of these visitors and his

942
00:42:01,960 --> 00:41:57,640
interpretation of the experience of

943
00:42:05,559 --> 00:42:01,970
compensation dissociative strategy of a

944
00:42:07,809 --> 00:42:05,569
traumatized psyche that is is generating

945
00:42:10,930 --> 00:42:07,819
a reality that's part fantasy part

946
00:42:14,410 --> 00:42:10,940
reality in order to you know escape an

947
00:42:17,079 --> 00:42:14,420
unbearable reality and might be a lot of

948
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:17,089
overlap with those two things that you

949
00:42:21,809 --> 00:42:19,130
said you know one thing that I'd love to

950
00:42:24,759 --> 00:42:21,819
get your comment on that just just

951
00:42:27,999 --> 00:42:24,769
floored me in listening to this most

952
00:42:29,589 --> 00:42:28,009
recent interview with Whitley on Greg

953
00:42:34,299 --> 00:42:29,599
Carl woods excellent show the higher

954
00:42:40,690 --> 00:42:34,309
side chats and he goes at the end of the

955
00:42:43,450 --> 00:42:40,700
day this is much much stranger than we

956
00:42:44,739 --> 00:42:43,460
could possibly imagine and again it's

957
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:44,749
one of those things that just like a

958
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:47,690
throwaway line but the way that he said

959
00:42:57,009 --> 00:42:51,410
it it just struck me at a level of maybe

960
00:43:00,190 --> 00:42:57,019
it is at that level of impossible to

961
00:43:04,299 --> 00:43:00,200
understand no matter which way we

962
00:43:06,130 --> 00:43:04,309
approach it and it has that as we

963
00:43:11,380 --> 00:43:06,140
started this discussion multiple

964
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:11,390
realities both created and imposed

965
00:43:16,450 --> 00:43:14,450
beyond our will running through it at

966
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:16,460
the same time that make it

967
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:21,890
really really strange mm-hmm yeah well

968
00:43:28,650 --> 00:43:24,610
you won't get any argument from me there

969
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:28,660
but I mean that is streamers stick

970
00:43:35,140 --> 00:43:32,930
finally say that way like he he loves to

971
00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:35,150
emphasize just how unbelievably strange

972
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:38,210
his experience is and and yes it is but

973
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:42,770
but why does he de-emphasize the the

974
00:43:49,420 --> 00:43:45,170
equally strange but far more mundane

975
00:43:51,580 --> 00:43:49,430
aspects that entail psychological trauma

976
00:43:53,770 --> 00:43:51,590
abuse government manipulations

977
00:43:56,080 --> 00:43:53,780
deceptions and so on and so forth that

978
00:43:58,150 --> 00:43:56,090
that's all I'm interested in doing I'm

979
00:44:01,120 --> 00:43:58,160
not interested in trying to discredit or

980
00:44:06,250 --> 00:44:01,130
debunk his his version of it I'm simply

981
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:06,260
interesting interested in in re adding

982
00:44:13,630 --> 00:44:11,810
you know returning the the disk or you

983
00:44:15,730 --> 00:44:13,640
know the ignored elements the elements

984
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:15,740
that have been kept out of this of the

985
00:44:21,060 --> 00:44:18,530
narrative because they undermine the

986
00:44:24,220 --> 00:44:21,070
narratives that Streep is presenting and

987
00:44:25,570 --> 00:44:24,230
it seems to be doing a disservice to the

988
00:44:27,370 --> 00:44:25,580
thing like you pointed out she was

989
00:44:29,950 --> 00:44:27,380
laying all this material out he is

990
00:44:32,140 --> 00:44:29,960
asking us to take it seriously but then

991
00:44:33,970 --> 00:44:32,150
I don't think anyone has taken straight

992
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:33,980
or as seriously as I have to be frank

993
00:44:38,380 --> 00:44:36,410
not even stream himself in some ways and

994
00:44:39,940 --> 00:44:38,390
certainly not geoffrey cry for like the

995
00:44:42,010 --> 00:44:39,950
amount of work I put into prison or

996
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:42,020
infinity in the amount of time and

997
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:44,210
energy and love really was a sincere

998
00:44:48,340 --> 00:44:45,890
attempt to understand what was happening

999
00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:48,350
to stray burn and to make sense of his

1000
00:44:52,570 --> 00:44:50,570
narrative but he's not interested in

1001
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:52,580
there and why well because it does

1002
00:44:57,760 --> 00:44:55,490
undermine what I said call his crucial

1003
00:44:59,680 --> 00:44:57,770
friction and I of course I've

1004
00:45:01,360 --> 00:44:59,690
sympathetic to that and I'm aware it's a

1005
00:45:03,970 --> 00:45:01,370
very delicate thing I don't want to be

1006
00:45:05,710 --> 00:45:03,980
bulldozing over somebody's necessary

1007
00:45:07,630 --> 00:45:05,720
you know interpretation of their

1008
00:45:09,790 --> 00:45:07,640
experience which is partly a defense and

1009
00:45:12,820 --> 00:45:09,800
a way to deal with it except as you say

1010
00:45:15,390 --> 00:45:12,830
he's putting it all out there and not

1011
00:45:18,670 --> 00:45:15,400
just inviting supposedly you know

1012
00:45:21,190 --> 00:45:18,680
discussion but also the opposite really

1013
00:45:23,170 --> 00:45:21,200
as in he's asserting this is this is

1014
00:45:25,330 --> 00:45:23,180
real as one of his favorite saying this

1015
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:25,340
is real this is really happening folks

1016
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:28,130
at the same time and this is to to I

1017
00:45:32,140 --> 00:45:30,170
think also enforced

1018
00:45:36,309 --> 00:45:32,150
reinforce what you're saying is he's

1019
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:36,319
open to or he seems to be open to you

1020
00:45:45,789 --> 00:45:39,170
know really penetrating this on a level

1021
00:45:49,150 --> 00:45:45,799
that includes his fragmented broken soul

1022
00:45:51,609 --> 00:45:49,160
that has been subjected to some really

1023
00:45:54,420 --> 00:45:51,619
horrible stuff I mean because let's be

1024
00:45:57,880 --> 00:45:54,430
fair he's he's outed the Randolph

1025
00:45:59,589 --> 00:45:57,890
experiments he's outed the Nazi doctors

1026
00:46:01,000 --> 00:45:59,599
not that Nazi doctors making any

1027
00:46:03,460 --> 00:46:01,010
difference you have Jewish doctors in

1028
00:46:04,809 --> 00:46:03,470
MKULTRA so it's not like you know it's

1029
00:46:06,849 --> 00:46:04,819
kind of the net so it's like whoever

1030
00:46:10,839 --> 00:46:06,859
they can get their hands on to do this

1031
00:46:12,609 --> 00:46:10,849
stuff but so III what I I take kind of a

1032
00:46:15,279 --> 00:46:12,619
middle ground between what you're saying

1033
00:46:19,329 --> 00:46:15,289
in terms of I hear you and I'm okay with

1034
00:46:21,309 --> 00:46:19,339
you pushing and I'm also if you used to

1035
00:46:23,890 --> 00:46:21,319
turn a phrase a minute ago and I can't

1036
00:46:26,589 --> 00:46:23,900
recall what it is but it's as much as

1037
00:46:28,450 --> 00:46:26,599
he's able to you know it's I get the

1038
00:46:31,839 --> 00:46:28,460
sense of not a guy who's intentionally

1039
00:46:35,980 --> 00:46:31,849
trying to mislead me in streamer but in

1040
00:46:39,849 --> 00:46:35,990
a guy who because maybe that's how

1041
00:46:44,740 --> 00:46:39,859
they've got him right now he can't

1042
00:46:47,730 --> 00:46:44,750
really seem to go some places that to

1043
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:47,740
the rest of us after reading your book

1044
00:46:53,650 --> 00:46:50,690
say why can't you go there why can't you

1045
00:46:57,940 --> 00:46:53,660
go to 1968 why can't you go to London

1046
00:47:00,430 --> 00:46:57,950
and San Antonio and Austin and all those

1047
00:47:02,319 --> 00:47:00,440
places what why it it's just your

1048
00:47:04,809 --> 00:47:02,329
timeline why can't you go there yeah

1049
00:47:07,450 --> 00:47:04,819
it's not a rhetorical question is that

1050
00:47:12,190 --> 00:47:07,460
that's a real case of why can't I even

1051
00:47:14,140 --> 00:47:12,200
go there honestly and the answer is what

1052
00:47:15,970 --> 00:47:14,150
I'm exploring there are areas of his

1053
00:47:17,710 --> 00:47:15,980
experience this is there are for all of

1054
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:17,720
us that are too threatening because

1055
00:47:23,650 --> 00:47:20,450
we've created a narrative to deal with

1056
00:47:26,559 --> 00:47:23,660
reality that prevents us from seeing

1057
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:26,569
reality as it is and certain anomalous

1058
00:47:31,420 --> 00:47:29,210
elements have had to be kept out of the

1059
00:47:33,789 --> 00:47:31,430
picture because they will the narrative

1060
00:47:35,319 --> 00:47:33,799
breaks down if we allow them into it so

1061
00:47:37,299 --> 00:47:35,329
that that was what I undertook with

1062
00:47:38,980 --> 00:47:37,309
Prisoner infinity was let's look at

1063
00:47:41,170 --> 00:47:38,990
streamers narrative let's reintroduce

1064
00:47:43,029 --> 00:47:41,180
the elements or re-emphasize the

1065
00:47:43,660 --> 00:47:43,039
elements that he himself as acknowledged

1066
00:47:45,579 --> 00:47:43,670
but as do

1067
00:47:48,130 --> 00:47:45,589
emphasized and actually rendered

1068
00:47:49,329 --> 00:47:48,140
irrelevant when I would say as is very

1069
00:47:51,370 --> 00:47:49,339
often the case you'll find in

1070
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:51,380
psychotherapy the very elements the

1071
00:47:54,099 --> 00:47:53,210
people of de-emphasized are actually the

1072
00:47:56,140 --> 00:47:54,109
key ones

1073
00:47:59,380 --> 00:47:56,150
it's the parts that people don't want to

1074
00:48:01,420 --> 00:47:59,390
see that really reveal the most so it's

1075
00:48:04,809 --> 00:48:01,430
like he's created this big lightshow

1076
00:48:07,990 --> 00:48:04,819
with the visitors and the zombies and

1077
00:48:10,030 --> 00:48:08,000
the you know dead communications and the

1078
00:48:11,859 --> 00:48:10,040
dead and all this psychic paranormal

1079
00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:11,869
phenomena which by the way I don't think

1080
00:48:17,589 --> 00:48:14,450
is necessarily unreal at all but I think

1081
00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:17,599
that the context in which streamer or

1082
00:48:22,059 --> 00:48:20,210
whoever is having these experiences is

1083
00:48:24,970 --> 00:48:22,069
as important as the experiences

1084
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:24,980
themselves because once again it that

1085
00:48:29,799 --> 00:48:27,530
would determine how wholesome how

1086
00:48:31,380 --> 00:48:29,809
healthy how integrated there are is

1087
00:48:35,849 --> 00:48:31,390
experiences as compared to how

1088
00:48:39,910 --> 00:48:35,859
compensation they are as like real

1089
00:48:42,370 --> 00:48:39,920
hallucinations let's say or fantasies

1090
00:48:45,010 --> 00:48:42,380
with a pH as in the human psyche is very

1091
00:48:47,890 --> 00:48:45,020
powerful to generate experiences

1092
00:48:49,599 --> 00:48:47,900
stigmata those experiences are real but

1093
00:48:51,700 --> 00:48:49,609
that doesn't mean the person actually is

1094
00:48:53,829 --> 00:48:51,710
channeling Christ or connecting to

1095
00:48:55,990 --> 00:48:53,839
Christ they might be you know hysterical

1096
00:48:58,120 --> 00:48:56,000
their religious upbringing might have

1097
00:49:00,099 --> 00:48:58,130
imprinted them so severely that they

1098
00:49:02,410 --> 00:49:00,109
they have this pathology that can

1099
00:49:04,599 --> 00:49:02,420
manifest in physical symptoms and I

1100
00:49:08,020 --> 00:49:04,609
think to bring it back to how we started

1101
00:49:10,450 --> 00:49:08,030
this conversation if I can that this is

1102
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:10,460
something that can be also observed on a

1103
00:49:16,180 --> 00:49:12,530
collective scale if you traumatize a

1104
00:49:19,780 --> 00:49:16,190
society while at the same time preparing

1105
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:19,790
for them fantasy or escapist or

1106
00:49:24,549 --> 00:49:21,890
compensating narratives that they can

1107
00:49:28,569 --> 00:49:24,559
then escape into then you will you will

1108
00:49:31,539 --> 00:49:28,579
be able to actually as it were mine the

1109
00:49:33,609 --> 00:49:31,549
psychic energy of a whole collective to

1110
00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:33,619
inform those narratives because they

1111
00:49:37,750 --> 00:49:35,930
will want so badly to believe in them so

1112
00:49:39,849 --> 00:49:37,760
those two things work together you've

1113
00:49:42,730 --> 00:49:39,859
got this very stark and brutal reality

1114
00:49:45,010 --> 00:49:42,740
you know of organized malevolence and

1115
00:49:47,079 --> 00:49:45,020
you have a people who's traumatized by

1116
00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:47,089
it is dimly aware of it and then you

1117
00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:48,890
have these fantasy narratives which are

1118
00:49:53,380 --> 00:49:51,290
based in true spiritual reality

1119
00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:53,390
therefore they have substance to them

1120
00:49:57,490 --> 00:49:56,450
but they've been cynically created and

1121
00:50:00,640 --> 00:49:57,500
co-opted

1122
00:50:02,410 --> 00:50:00,650
to provide escapes for the very same

1123
00:50:05,230 --> 00:50:02,420
collectives that's being traumatized

1124
00:50:07,990 --> 00:50:05,240
they will they will flee into them and

1125
00:50:10,390 --> 00:50:08,000
they will in you know animate them they

1126
00:50:11,710 --> 00:50:10,400
will make them real and I think that

1127
00:50:14,500 --> 00:50:11,720
we're seeing something like that on the

1128
00:50:16,510 --> 00:50:14,510
collective scale it's it's really

1129
00:50:19,750 --> 00:50:16,520
massive and quite overwhelming in its

1130
00:50:22,089 --> 00:50:19,760
scope but on the other hand what I found

1131
00:50:24,550 --> 00:50:22,099
with Prisoner infinity as I said earlier

1132
00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:24,560
we don't have to figure out what's going

1133
00:50:29,950 --> 00:50:26,690
on in the world and understand the whole

1134
00:50:34,810 --> 00:50:29,960
big picture because we know we can we

1135
00:50:36,670 --> 00:50:34,820
only have to address our own the ways in

1136
00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:36,680
which we've been unmoored from our own

1137
00:50:41,710 --> 00:50:38,570
the ground of our own soul and our own

1138
00:50:46,180 --> 00:50:41,720
being and been lured into these these

1139
00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:46,190
counterfeit spiritual or scientific or

1140
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:49,130
religious or magical or without or

1141
00:50:55,599 --> 00:50:53,090
artistic narratives yeah and and just

1142
00:50:58,150 --> 00:50:55,609
withdraw a little by little from them

1143
00:50:59,200 --> 00:50:58,160
because however close they approximate

1144
00:51:00,730 --> 00:50:59,210
the reals

1145
00:51:06,010 --> 00:51:00,740
they're not because they were they were

1146
00:51:08,859 --> 00:51:06,020
made by someone else okay excellent one

1147
00:51:11,500 --> 00:51:08,869
more to throw on the table with Whitley

1148
00:51:13,210 --> 00:51:11,510
and then we'll wrap up this conversation

1149
00:51:16,510 --> 00:51:13,220
from going at it for an hour and a half

1150
00:51:18,490 --> 00:51:16,520
okay and this is a tough one I don't

1151
00:51:21,390 --> 00:51:18,500
know what to make of it and I'm

1152
00:51:26,310 --> 00:51:21,400
challenged because it does enter the

1153
00:51:29,170 --> 00:51:26,320
more materialistic scientific realm of

1154
00:51:29,859 --> 00:51:29,180
extended consciousness if you get my

1155
00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:29,869
point

1156
00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:32,050
I mean I think that's a real critical

1157
00:51:39,670 --> 00:51:35,690
part that we both come together on is

1158
00:51:43,240 --> 00:51:39,680
that part of what we're seeing here from

1159
00:51:45,940 --> 00:51:43,250
a deep state shadow government kind of

1160
00:51:48,010 --> 00:51:45,950
thing is these guys wanted to figure

1161
00:51:50,859 --> 00:51:48,020
this extended consciousness stuff out

1162
00:51:55,810 --> 00:51:50,869
and they were going to plow into it so

1163
00:51:59,530 --> 00:51:55,820
you know remote viewing and an MKULTRA

1164
00:52:02,500 --> 00:51:59,540
are some would argue and I would that

1165
00:52:06,329 --> 00:52:02,510
part of it was the experience of

1166
00:52:08,650 --> 00:52:06,339
encountering ET and encountering their

1167
00:52:10,240 --> 00:52:08,660
ability to manipulate extended

1168
00:52:12,310 --> 00:52:10,250
consciousness and

1169
00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:12,320
saying okay this is the next frontier

1170
00:52:17,589 --> 00:52:15,050
that we have to look at too because we

1171
00:52:19,660 --> 00:52:17,599
can't be caught you know on our feet

1172
00:52:22,780 --> 00:52:19,670
with this here's the point though here's

1173
00:52:24,700 --> 00:52:22,790
the the Whitley story that just scares

1174
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:24,710
the living crap out of anyone who hears

1175
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:27,530
it which Whitley is great at but at the

1176
00:52:32,910 --> 00:52:30,410
same time I get the sense in with this

1177
00:52:35,740 --> 00:52:32,920
openness this kind of unbelievable

1178
00:52:38,710 --> 00:52:35,750
vulnerability that he shows that he's

1179
00:52:43,260 --> 00:52:38,720
telling the truth and that's that he

1180
00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:43,270
says that he's come to believe that

1181
00:52:52,660 --> 00:52:48,010
these Nazi scientists who ran these

1182
00:52:56,040 --> 00:52:52,670
horrible child brutal brutally

1183
00:52:59,109 --> 00:52:56,050
these these horrible experiments on

1184
00:53:02,740 --> 00:52:59,119
children that what they were trying to

1185
00:53:05,260 --> 00:53:02,750
do was crack into this other realm in

1186
00:53:08,740 --> 00:53:05,270
the same way that these Nazis had

1187
00:53:11,620 --> 00:53:08,750
cracked into accidentally in the gas

1188
00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:11,630
chambers of Auschwitz and he says that

1189
00:53:16,690 --> 00:53:14,330
these guys they counted the children and

1190
00:53:18,670 --> 00:53:16,700
the adults too but they counted the

1191
00:53:21,490 --> 00:53:18,680
people that went into the gas chambers

1192
00:53:24,040 --> 00:53:21,500
and they carefully counted the people

1193
00:53:28,390 --> 00:53:24,050
that came out and every once in a while

1194
00:53:32,020 --> 00:53:28,400
the counts did not match and Whitley

1195
00:53:35,530 --> 00:53:32,030
believes that if people are traumatized

1196
00:53:38,349 --> 00:53:35,540
enough but especially children they can

1197
00:53:40,870 --> 00:53:38,359
not only disassociate in the ways that

1198
00:53:43,839 --> 00:53:40,880
we've come to understand can kind of

1199
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:43,849
crush a soul but they may actually be

1200
00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:47,770
able to shift into another dimension

1201
00:53:55,089 --> 00:53:51,770
another realm that puts them in contact

1202
00:53:57,520 --> 00:53:55,099
with not only ET but maybe a bunch of

1203
00:54:01,690 --> 00:53:57,530
other stuff and he speculates that

1204
00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:01,700
perhaps that was one of the goals of

1205
00:54:10,750 --> 00:54:06,290
this project was to recreate that what

1206
00:54:13,060 --> 00:54:10,760
do you make of that it just seems very

1207
00:54:15,040 --> 00:54:13,070
highly speculative and again it's

1208
00:54:17,500 --> 00:54:15,050
interesting that he didn't refer to his

1209
00:54:20,020 --> 00:54:17,510
own experience because was he one of

1210
00:54:22,990 --> 00:54:20,030
those did he enter another dimension or

1211
00:54:23,980 --> 00:54:23,000
did he know and so that ought to be a

1212
00:54:26,230 --> 00:54:23,990
very pressing

1213
00:54:28,060 --> 00:54:26,240
central question for streamer himself if

1214
00:54:31,990 --> 00:54:28,070
he doesn't know it and for his audience

1215
00:54:33,940 --> 00:54:32,000
if he does so but on the other hand he's

1216
00:54:36,160 --> 00:54:33,950
speculating about this that supposedly

1217
00:54:37,930 --> 00:54:36,170
went on in Nazi concentration camps well

1218
00:54:40,750 --> 00:54:37,940
how does he know this what's his source

1219
00:54:43,900 --> 00:54:40,760
you know because one thing about

1220
00:54:45,940 --> 00:54:43,910
streamer and I said you know I hear you

1221
00:54:47,410 --> 00:54:45,950
on that but but if we if we just kind of

1222
00:54:49,270 --> 00:54:47,420
switch in and just take the story and

1223
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:49,280
say is it can it be totally [\h__\h] it

1224
00:54:53,620 --> 00:54:51,290
can be totally dismissed it's like what

1225
00:54:56,290 --> 00:54:53,630
is his purpose for for saying that story

1226
00:54:58,780 --> 00:54:56,300
it doesn't it doesn't help anything

1227
00:55:01,180 --> 00:54:58,790
about his yeah I was gonna say I don't

1228
00:55:03,430 --> 00:55:01,190
think straight was a witting

1229
00:55:05,770 --> 00:55:03,440
disinformation agent I think he's a

1230
00:55:08,980 --> 00:55:05,780
confabulate err and I think that that's

1231
00:55:12,010 --> 00:55:08,990
one of the benefits in quotes rather

1232
00:55:14,140 --> 00:55:12,020
morbid benefits of the traumatized

1233
00:55:17,290 --> 00:55:14,150
psyche or traumatizing a psyche is that

1234
00:55:19,870 --> 00:55:17,300
it does learn to weave fantasies with

1235
00:55:24,609 --> 00:55:19,880
with all the intensity and passion and

1236
00:55:27,160 --> 00:55:24,619
commitment of reality itself and I mean

1237
00:55:28,930 --> 00:55:27,170
we see this on on a low level with you

1238
00:55:30,790 --> 00:55:28,940
know writers and artists tend to have

1239
00:55:32,620 --> 00:55:30,800
dysfunctional families and difficult

1240
00:55:34,810 --> 00:55:32,630
childhoods that's a that's a well-known

1241
00:55:36,970 --> 00:55:34,820
fact so I would say what's more

1242
00:55:39,010 --> 00:55:36,980
interesting and less speculative

1243
00:55:41,230 --> 00:55:39,020
it's the extent to which something like

1244
00:55:45,370 --> 00:55:41,240
am couch was a program understood this

1245
00:55:47,650 --> 00:55:45,380
that a way to create great cultural

1246
00:55:52,200 --> 00:55:47,660
confabulate errs would be to traumatize

1247
00:55:55,660 --> 00:55:52,210
them and you know force them to develop

1248
00:55:58,210 --> 00:55:55,670
strategies of dissociation and fantasy

1249
00:56:00,820 --> 00:55:58,220
that was so profound and prodigious that

1250
00:56:03,390 --> 00:56:00,830
if they grew up to be functioning social

1251
00:56:06,940 --> 00:56:03,400
entities they could become very

1252
00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:06,950
influential cultural figures now you

1253
00:56:11,380 --> 00:56:08,810
could see how problematic that would get

1254
00:56:13,180 --> 00:56:11,390
when such figures don't just stay in the

1255
00:56:15,700 --> 00:56:13,190
realm of horror fiction but become

1256
00:56:17,710 --> 00:56:15,710
horror nonfiction writers who then start

1257
00:56:20,230 --> 00:56:17,720
speculating about you know Nazi

1258
00:56:22,780 --> 00:56:20,240
experiments in concentration camps that

1259
00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:22,790
caused interdimensional travel for

1260
00:56:27,010 --> 00:56:24,770
children right is he is he writing

1261
00:56:29,200 --> 00:56:27,020
fiction at this point or is he is it

1262
00:56:31,300 --> 00:56:29,210
nonfiction and can we trust his own

1263
00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:31,310
judgement about that same with his wife

1264
00:56:36,910 --> 00:56:33,650
Ann and no doubt he sincerely believes

1265
00:56:37,790 --> 00:56:36,920
is in communication with her but if he

1266
00:56:40,130 --> 00:56:37,800
were as

1267
00:56:42,650 --> 00:56:40,140
as someone who's been through Cerebus

1268
00:56:44,060 --> 00:56:42,660
experiences ought to be he would also be

1269
00:56:46,490 --> 00:56:44,070
considering that he might be being

1270
00:56:48,650 --> 00:56:46,500
played by other dimensional entities or

1271
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:48,660
by psychotronic you know weaponry of the

1272
00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:51,810
CIA rather than just you know blase lee

1273
00:56:56,390 --> 00:56:53,970
assume that yes his beloved wife is

1274
00:56:58,550 --> 00:56:56,400
communicating to him from the other side

1275
00:57:01,609 --> 00:56:58,560
that does there's too much of the

1276
00:57:04,820 --> 00:57:01,619
tendency was streamer to make the

1277
00:57:08,960 --> 00:57:04,830
narrative so compelling and so enticing

1278
00:57:11,180 --> 00:57:08,970
and so appealing that will suspend our

1279
00:57:13,070 --> 00:57:11,190
critical faculties and just speculate

1280
00:57:16,040 --> 00:57:13,080
along with him and I'd say this is an

1281
00:57:17,810 --> 00:57:16,050
example that yeah maybe the Nazis were

1282
00:57:19,820 --> 00:57:17,820
doing something like that but maybe they

1283
00:57:22,910 --> 00:57:19,830
were I mean there's no much to say

1284
00:57:24,260 --> 00:57:22,920
beyond that is there see this is kind of

1285
00:57:26,720 --> 00:57:24,270
interesting and this is a point we could

1286
00:57:29,960 --> 00:57:26,730
kind of really rustle to the ground if

1287
00:57:35,060 --> 00:57:29,970
we had more time but I almost see that

1288
00:57:36,859 --> 00:57:35,070
the suspension of disbelief needs to

1289
00:57:38,570 --> 00:57:36,869
kind of switch to the other realm when

1290
00:57:41,030 --> 00:57:38,580
you talk about after death communication

1291
00:57:42,650 --> 00:57:41,040
I mean the the way that he's talking

1292
00:57:44,540 --> 00:57:42,660
about the after death communication with

1293
00:57:47,420 --> 00:57:44,550
his wife and who passed a couple years

1294
00:57:50,090 --> 00:57:47,430
ago is in completely in line with the

1295
00:57:52,760 --> 00:57:50,100
best quote-unquote science we have about

1296
00:57:56,420 --> 00:57:52,770
after death communication and the

1297
00:58:00,500 --> 00:57:56,430
contact by a close friend to close

1298
00:58:03,109 --> 00:58:00,510
friends after the death and you know so

1299
00:58:04,730 --> 00:58:03,119
it's totally cynical perspective could

1300
00:58:08,780 --> 00:58:04,740
just be while he's just lying he's just

1301
00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:08,790
making that up but it is completely

1302
00:58:12,800 --> 00:58:11,010
consistent with everything you hear

1303
00:58:15,020 --> 00:58:12,810
about after death communication the

1304
00:58:18,170 --> 00:58:15,030
first guy who calls doesn't even know

1305
00:58:21,050 --> 00:58:18,180
that Anne has passed and says hey Anne

1306
00:58:22,880 --> 00:58:21,060
said to give you a call in contact and

1307
00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:22,890
the other person you know a day or two

1308
00:58:30,470 --> 00:58:25,290
later does know that Anne has passed and

1309
00:58:34,790 --> 00:58:30,480
sends that message forward so again to

1310
00:58:36,980 --> 00:58:34,800
me that forces me to forced-choice kind

1311
00:58:38,810 --> 00:58:36,990
of thing either this guy is a deliberate

1312
00:58:41,390 --> 00:58:38,820
misinformation agent which I just don't

1313
00:58:45,230 --> 00:58:41,400
accept he just doesn't fit that model

1314
00:58:47,390 --> 00:58:45,240
he's way too open he's way too willing

1315
00:58:51,059 --> 00:58:47,400
to go places that wouldn't serve those

1316
00:58:54,079 --> 00:58:51,069
interests so he's so he's not that

1317
00:58:57,420 --> 00:58:54,089
then I got a believe since that

1318
00:58:59,969 --> 00:58:57,430
phenomenon is kind of well understood to

1319
00:59:01,829 --> 00:58:59,979
that as much as we can say that that

1320
00:59:03,239 --> 00:59:01,839
what he's saying is it's true why

1321
00:59:04,589 --> 00:59:03,249
wouldn't it be true of course there's

1322
00:59:06,749 --> 00:59:04,599
after death communication

1323
00:59:08,729 --> 00:59:06,759
why didn't he communicate with Anna I

1324
00:59:12,900 --> 00:59:08,739
don't I don't find a solid reason not to

1325
00:59:16,170 --> 00:59:12,910
believe that well I'd say don't believe

1326
00:59:19,319 --> 00:59:16,180
anything and until you know it I mean

1327
00:59:22,259 --> 00:59:19,329
just leave it as an unknown so that's

1328
00:59:23,969 --> 00:59:22,269
where I go with that you know with

1329
00:59:25,410 --> 00:59:23,979
anyone who's having communion because I

1330
00:59:27,509 --> 00:59:25,420
thought I've had communication with

1331
00:59:29,699 --> 00:59:27,519
family members after they've died or

1332
00:59:31,259 --> 00:59:29,709
other people after they died I still

1333
00:59:33,839 --> 00:59:31,269
have to put a question mark on it

1334
00:59:35,939 --> 00:59:33,849
because I don't know if it's really them

1335
00:59:38,130 --> 00:59:35,949
like I don't know there aren't other

1336
00:59:41,400 --> 00:59:38,140
entities or even other technologies that

1337
00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:41,410
can can assume the guise of people

1338
00:59:46,140 --> 00:59:43,930
who've died and and and foolís

1339
00:59:47,579 --> 00:59:46,150
benevolently or or malevolently into

1340
00:59:49,380 --> 00:59:47,589
believing we're in communication with

1341
00:59:51,630 --> 00:59:49,390
the dead I said you know Christians

1342
00:59:54,180 --> 00:59:51,640
would say that that it's demons or

1343
00:59:56,400 --> 00:59:54,190
angels who are just using the shells of

1344
00:59:58,380 --> 00:59:56,410
dead people to communicate with us how

1345
01:00:00,390 --> 00:59:58,390
would we possibly know it's out of the

1346
01:00:02,089 --> 01:00:00,400
case right but allowing that the

1347
01:00:05,130 --> 01:00:02,099
certainly something beyond their

1348
01:00:07,620 --> 01:00:05,140
paradigm is occurring I would say that's

1349
01:00:09,599 --> 01:00:07,630
the case history by including this thing

1350
01:00:13,140 --> 01:00:09,609
without the thing is with stream of the

1351
01:00:15,319 --> 01:00:13,150
context is is that he has he it does

1352
01:00:18,449 --> 01:00:15,329
seem to me that everything he's doing is

1353
01:00:20,939 --> 01:00:18,459
useful to the socio spiritual

1354
01:00:22,979 --> 01:00:20,949
engineering programs as so far as I've

1355
01:00:26,640 --> 01:00:22,989
been able to map them I haven't seen

1356
01:00:30,059 --> 01:00:26,650
much evidence that he's really willing

1357
01:00:32,999 --> 01:00:30,069
to go against the grain so and I'd say

1358
01:00:35,099 --> 01:00:33,009
Ricky Jason because like in from my

1359
01:00:36,569 --> 01:00:35,109
experience and you know from a little

1360
01:00:39,509 --> 01:00:36,579
bit of following the show take

1361
01:00:41,479 --> 01:00:39,519
near-death experience science that's a

1362
01:00:44,249 --> 01:00:41,489
great one because that has both elements

1363
01:00:46,949 --> 01:00:44,259
you could say on one hand that that

1364
01:00:49,049 --> 01:00:46,959
follows the socio spiritual engineering

1365
01:00:51,630 --> 01:00:49,059
agenda but it sure doesn't look like

1366
01:00:54,539 --> 01:00:51,640
that when that stuff hit you know ten

1367
01:00:56,549 --> 01:00:54,549
years ago or eight years ago and they

1368
01:00:58,739 --> 01:00:56,559
came out hard against that and they stay

1369
01:01:01,229 --> 01:00:58,749
haven't totally softened on it either

1370
01:01:04,439 --> 01:01:01,239
it's just gained so much momentum within

1371
01:01:04,770 --> 01:01:04,449
the public sphere and public acceptance

1372
01:01:10,020 --> 01:01:04,780
of

1373
01:01:12,810 --> 01:01:10,030
certain extent but that's because guns

1374
01:01:14,760 --> 01:01:12,820
a-blazing against that and and so how do

1375
01:01:15,810 --> 01:01:14,770
you that goes back to I think what we're

1376
01:01:18,060 --> 01:01:15,820
saying before I think we have to have a

1377
01:01:20,310 --> 01:01:18,070
nuanced thing of they have their hooks

1378
01:01:22,380 --> 01:01:20,320
in it but they don't know which way that

1379
01:01:23,700 --> 01:01:22,390
bull is going to turn and I think the

1380
01:01:25,740 --> 01:01:23,710
same as well with after death

1381
01:01:28,460 --> 01:01:25,750
communication no they I don't think

1382
01:01:31,770 --> 01:01:28,470
they're controlling the release of that

1383
01:01:35,700 --> 01:01:31,780
of those findings that data that science

1384
01:01:36,810 --> 01:01:35,710
if you will respect to the counterfeit I

1385
01:01:38,370 --> 01:01:36,820
mean the people are creating

1386
01:01:40,500 --> 01:01:38,380
counterfeits aren't necessarily the

1387
01:01:41,970 --> 01:01:40,510
people who create the currency right yes

1388
01:01:44,610 --> 01:01:41,980
I mean John Mack

1389
01:01:46,680 --> 01:01:44,620
he was at Harvard so he was an insider

1390
01:01:48,030 --> 01:01:46,690
but then he started to him Aryan

1391
01:01:49,980 --> 01:01:48,040
abductions and he got kicked out of

1392
01:01:54,660 --> 01:01:49,990
Harvard so that would superficially seem

1393
01:01:57,450 --> 01:01:54,670
to reinforce Jang maps you know whatever

1394
01:01:59,340 --> 01:01:57,460
credibility and suggests that the powers

1395
01:02:01,530 --> 01:01:59,350
that be were trying to suppress him but

1396
01:02:04,320 --> 01:02:01,540
if we use that as an argument then we've

1397
01:02:06,030 --> 01:02:04,330
got to think that the powers that be are

1398
01:02:08,220 --> 01:02:06,040
smart enough to know that we might use

1399
01:02:09,990 --> 01:02:08,230
that as an argument and to know if

1400
01:02:12,780 --> 01:02:10,000
you're going to create a sort of

1401
01:02:15,630 --> 01:02:12,790
grassroots movement or make something

1402
01:02:17,040 --> 01:02:15,640
appear organic and spontaneous you also

1403
01:02:19,890 --> 01:02:17,050
make it appear that it's being

1404
01:02:21,540 --> 01:02:19,900
suppressed and I mean that's the UFO

1405
01:02:23,550 --> 01:02:21,550
narrative through and through right

1406
01:02:25,500 --> 01:02:23,560
supposedly the government's been trying

1407
01:02:27,780 --> 01:02:25,510
to cover it up but scratch the surface

1408
01:02:30,960 --> 01:02:27,790
and no they've actually been creating a

1409
01:02:33,240 --> 01:02:30,970
lot of the supposed evidence that

1410
01:02:35,100 --> 01:02:33,250
they've been supposedly covering up so

1411
01:02:37,860 --> 01:02:35,110
certainly you've got to allow at least

1412
01:02:39,990 --> 01:02:37,870
those two levels right I do and I can't

1413
01:02:41,250 --> 01:02:40,000
resist throwing one more in before we

1414
01:02:42,900 --> 01:02:41,260
wrap it up because it's kind of one of

1415
01:02:46,080 --> 01:02:42,910
my things always returned to its the

1416
01:02:47,490 --> 01:02:46,090
proactive versus reactive thing because

1417
01:02:51,290 --> 01:02:47,500
I think we can get to the same place and

1418
01:02:59,610 --> 01:02:51,300
that's that I think too often we

1419
01:03:03,000 --> 01:02:59,620
associate a proactive a we associate a

1420
01:03:09,450 --> 01:03:03,010
proactive agenda opera ttles operas

1421
01:03:11,970 --> 01:03:09,460
ation laid a proactive deep state where

1422
01:03:14,700 --> 01:03:11,980
what they're really doing is a reactive

1423
01:03:16,350 --> 01:03:14,710
kind of thing so the idea that they're

1424
01:03:18,220 --> 01:03:16,360
figuring all this stuff in out in

1425
01:03:19,720 --> 01:03:18,230
advance and running the program and

1426
01:03:22,870 --> 01:03:19,730
operationalizing it in a perfectly

1427
01:03:25,060 --> 01:03:22,880
orchestrated way no as the history

1428
01:03:27,400 --> 01:03:25,070
suggests that it's probably much more

1429
01:03:30,040 --> 01:03:27,410
reactive it's just a bunch of idiots

1430
01:03:34,359 --> 01:03:30,050
sitting around a now let's try this and

1431
01:03:38,380 --> 01:03:34,369
then it totally fails and one psychopath

1432
01:03:40,990 --> 01:03:38,390
in the back of the room says yeah but if

1433
01:03:43,750 --> 01:03:41,000
we wanted to we could kind of turn that

1434
01:03:45,900 --> 01:03:43,760
around and kind of weaponize that in

1435
01:03:49,090 --> 01:03:45,910
this way and everyone goes yeah

1436
01:03:51,010 --> 01:03:49,100
weaponize it let it planet going that

1437
01:03:53,320 --> 01:03:51,020
way it just went that way and they just

1438
01:03:56,340 --> 01:03:53,330
throw some more crop against the wall

1439
01:03:58,810 --> 01:03:56,350
and see what sticks but that doesn't

1440
01:04:00,790 --> 01:03:58,820
that fits in perfectly with what you've

1441
01:04:03,370 --> 01:04:00,800
described as well I mean that would that

1442
01:04:05,680 --> 01:04:03,380
would in an organic way add to the

1443
01:04:07,930 --> 01:04:05,690
confusion of being whipsawed some way or

1444
01:04:09,940 --> 01:04:07,940
another you know yeah oh it's same way

1445
01:04:12,010 --> 01:04:09,950
to counterfeit again it's a reaction to

1446
01:04:14,109 --> 01:04:12,020
currency if you see a currency and you

1447
01:04:15,640 --> 01:04:14,119
realize you can't control it well create

1448
01:04:17,980 --> 01:04:15,650
a counterfeit because you will be able

1449
01:04:19,690 --> 01:04:17,990
to control that so yeah in a certain

1450
01:04:21,520 --> 01:04:19,700
sense I would definitely agree that it's

1451
01:04:23,710 --> 01:04:21,530
all reactive in terms of what we're

1452
01:04:26,109 --> 01:04:23,720
talking about organized malevolence by

1453
01:04:28,570 --> 01:04:26,119
definition it's reactive it's not able

1454
01:04:30,550 --> 01:04:28,580
to respond organically and spontaneously

1455
01:04:34,000 --> 01:04:30,560
to what is it's trying to control

1456
01:04:37,390 --> 01:04:34,010
everything now and and that in itself

1457
01:04:40,660 --> 01:04:37,400
the desire to control or oppress or

1458
01:04:43,000 --> 01:04:40,670
dominate is is a reaction it's like a

1459
01:04:45,460 --> 01:04:43,010
fear response to something as

1460
01:04:49,870 --> 01:04:45,470
overwhelming so you have we want to end

1461
01:04:57,250 --> 01:04:49,880
on a meta No then yeah all of these

1462
01:05:00,370 --> 01:04:57,260
machination 'he's a source in i would

1463
01:05:06,240 --> 01:05:00,380
send an eventually few Tarr and

1464
01:05:08,530 --> 01:05:06,250
inevitably futile reactive response to

1465
01:05:10,630 --> 01:05:08,540
something that can't be comprehended by

1466
01:05:13,510 --> 01:05:10,640
the human mind or the human ego it's

1467
01:05:15,430 --> 01:05:13,520
just beyond our comprehension but I do

1468
01:05:17,890 --> 01:05:15,440
think there is a but to that because

1469
01:05:20,230 --> 01:05:17,900
that also has been part of the snared of

1470
01:05:22,780 --> 01:05:20,240
a these reactive idiot

1471
01:05:25,840 --> 01:05:22,790
super genius controllers have used to

1472
01:05:28,150 --> 01:05:25,850
trick us into you know not looking more

1473
01:05:30,099 --> 01:05:28,160
closely the evidence this idea that well

1474
01:05:32,010 --> 01:05:30,109
we can't comprehend this anyway right

1475
01:05:34,560 --> 01:05:32,020
because yeah ok you

1476
01:05:37,500 --> 01:05:34,570
from the Ultima nation reality that you

1477
01:05:39,300 --> 01:05:37,510
can comprehend the masa nations of the

1478
01:05:41,970 --> 01:05:39,310
ruling elite and the intelligence

1479
01:05:43,620 --> 01:05:41,980
agencies to some degree and so that

1480
01:05:44,880 --> 01:05:43,630
that's why I attempted with strippers

1481
01:05:47,790 --> 01:05:44,890
there's an awful lot in his narrative

1482
01:05:50,580 --> 01:05:47,800
that actually can be can be flattened

1483
01:05:52,710 --> 01:05:50,590
out and unpacked and explained in very

1484
01:05:55,020 --> 01:05:52,720
mundane terms now what's left at the end

1485
01:05:59,670 --> 01:05:55,030
of that well that that is truly

1486
01:06:01,410 --> 01:05:59,680
anomalous excellent our guests again has

1487
01:06:02,880 --> 01:06:01,420
been Jason Horsley you're definitely

1488
01:06:05,520 --> 01:06:02,890
going to want to check out this book

1489
01:06:08,670 --> 01:06:05,530
we've been referencing prisoner of the

1490
01:06:11,910 --> 01:06:08,680
infinity and of course check out his

1491
01:06:14,880 --> 01:06:11,920
website Auto culture calm a lot of great

1492
01:06:16,830 --> 01:06:14,890
stuff on there you'll just dive deep in

1493
01:06:18,810 --> 01:06:16,840
so many areas you probably won't be able

1494
01:06:21,480 --> 01:06:18,820
to figure self out for a couple days

1495
01:06:24,690 --> 01:06:21,490
Jason it's been great having you on the

1496
01:06:26,760 --> 01:06:24,700
show I look forward to following your

1497
01:06:30,480 --> 01:06:26,770
work and maybe doing this again someday

1498
01:06:39,910 --> 01:06:30,490
well thanks I'm glad that we we finally

1499
01:06:39,920 --> 01:06:42,150
you

1500
01:06:46,200 --> 01:06:44,490
so thanks for watching this video and if

1501
01:06:49,079 --> 01:06:46,210
it wasn't really a video but just an

1502
01:06:50,670 --> 01:06:49,089
audio stored as a video I apologize but

1503
01:06:52,589 --> 01:06:50,680
there's more videos out there as well

1504
01:06:54,420 --> 01:06:52,599
but please check out the skeptic Oh

1505
01:06:55,769 --> 01:06:54,430
website you can see it here we cover a

1506
01:06:58,620 --> 01:06:55,779
lot of different stuff you might be

1507
01:07:01,920 --> 01:06:58,630
interested in relating to controversial

1508
01:07:05,339 --> 01:07:01,930
science and spirituality a lot of shows

1509
01:07:08,370 --> 01:07:05,349
up there over 350 of them or so all free

1510
01:07:09,820 --> 01:07:08,380
all available for download so do check